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torkworld
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 11:25 pm 
   Post subject: Soul Calibur 2
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Good I get to start this one too...

Ahhh, Soul Calibur's U.S. release date was delayed for a specific reason - remember 4 years ago when the VMA's didn't mean shit because everyone was busy playing their new Dreamcasts? Fuck a MTV I'm glued to my Gamecube tonight!

In the name of all that is holy, there are projectiles to escape Kilik's cheap ass moves!!!! Hallelujah!!!!

But these extras are like the hover and water treads on Vigilante 8: 2nd Offense, the clumsy control of these extras damn near kills the joy of em. Still nothing tops hitting an unsuspecting jackass with a bow and arrow shot between the eyes!


Namco also addressed the easy ringouts by adding...easy ass infinite juggle possibilities against walls?

As far as the controls on GC go, on the demo it seemed cumbersome but not here on the final version. They had to have done some fine tuning because now for me the GC pad is a non-factor.

All in all, with so much to do this game kicks ass and puts F Zero GX right where it belongs...collecting dust beside my copy of Outtrigger!!!!

How do I get the damn secret characters already?

www.torkworld.cjb.net

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BoneStormer
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:03 am 
   Post subject: Re: Soul Calibur 2
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So you really like SC2? Even when you weren't a huge SC fan? Hmm, with this Tork stanp of approval, tomorrow I hope to *finally* go try the PS2 version and buy my own copy of SC2 if all goes well.

No one can ever convince me the GC d-pad is usable (and I mean this in general, not specifcally for SC2). Though I am concered all versions have 'lose' control. If so, I'll stick with VF4e.



You mised the VMAs? NOOOO! Well do what I did and watch the first 10 minutes. Chris Rock is fucking hillarious. If they made the whole show a Rock standup act, I might actually watch it.


NBrid.net
Get out, and take your Sacagawea dollars with you! I'll give you 'til three. One!

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nbrid
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 3:20 am 
   Post subject: Re: Soul Calibur 2
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Reading some of these posts are beginning to give me annuerisms. First off...yes SC2 IS in fact awesome. However, which moves of kilik's are cheap? I swear people dont seem to realize that utilizing the guard impact can turn the tides on almost every "cheap" move in the book. I find fighting Voldo and Ivy (with her massive reach) much more frustrating, albeit fun. The control is neither lose nor tweaked from the demo. It is the same. I think the situation is that we didnt have our characters so we didnt quite feel "right" with the GC pad. I dont know, maybe you just got used to it after playing the demo a bunch of times.

As far as the VMA's are concerned, I havent seen one of those in years. I think 9.9.99 was the first year I stopped interest in them. Although, I never really enjoyed watching them anyway. Now the MOVIE awards...those are good. Heh, I didnt even know they were on tonight.

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torkworld
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 9:12 pm 
   Post subject: Re: Soul Calibur 2
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Kilik has incredible reach and anyone that plays with/against Kilik will tell you, look at the the move list, pick any ONE move of your choice, hit the same command 25+ times, PERFECT!


Next opponent.

Same goes for Mitsurugi, perform your grab move nonstop.

You can block, parry, and 8 way move all day, but one continuous move will eventually kill you and that's the gaping hole that remains a trademark of Soul Calibur.

It's like the old Street Fighter games with the CPU ryu constantly spewing fireballs. Yeah you block em, but every 50-100 consecutive fireballs you miss one and take the full damage. After a while you're dead. It's worse on SC2 because a weapon in a man's hand is faster than gahering the chi for a fireball.

Every other 3D fighter has some way to counter it...except Soul Calibur. It's a double edged sword (no pun intended) this same flaw is what makes it so enjoyable as a 2 player game.

www.torkworld.cjb.net

Edited by: torkworld at: 8/29/03 7:13 pm
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ConnDestn
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:45 pm 
   Post subject: Re: Soul Calibur 2
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well ive played the xbox version over a friends house today for about 2 hours and its more of the same but enjoyable as well. Spawn is cool, and my new favorite charater is Talim. I really dont see that much of a graphic upgrade compared to the now ancient dreamcast soul calibur but maybe its just me.

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nbrid
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 2:18 am 
   Post subject: Re: Soul Calibur 2
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No Conn..it's not just you. Why in fact, I sold a copy of the game to a man the other day and he told me that the PS2 version looks so horrible, it looks even worse than the dreamcast version! I almost insulted the fellow, but I kept my professional cool and twitched a little bit. HAS THE WHOLE WORLD GONE INSANE?! Yes, SC on dreamcast was an AMAZING feat of graphical prowess. However, SC2 is also good looking on today's systems. It may not dwarf the competition but it sure is very close to DOA3 quality graphics. If you put the DC version up against the PS2 version on the same make and model TVs, you would notice that SC2 has better lighting on the characters and arenas, much smoother graphics, better textures, better looking arenas, and much more detail in the facial expressions. Some of us were too astounded by the great looking dreamcast game, that we dont realize it's not as good looking as SC2.

As far as "same move mcgee's" are concerned; any GOOD player can dodge or reverse a repetitive move. Of course people that aren't quite as good or those that get caught off guard can be killed quickly with say...4 kilik/mina cartwheels. Get around it or GI it. Seriously...Now if you want cheap, let's talk about Ivy's whip. I think Ivy as a character is definately one of the "expert" characters, but if she gets you on the ground...say goodbye to that precious life bar because there's a good chance you're not getting back up. So in conclusion the gameplay is extremely balanced as long as you utilize everything available to you. As a Kilik user I can tell you that being predictable won't win a match (against humans...that are good).

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BoneStormer
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 2:44 am 
   Post subject: Re: Soul Calibur 2
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I agree with Conn. Given we're comparing it to a FOUR year old game on a supposedly inferior system, the differences are minor (even if yes they are better).

I also agree with Conn that it is more of a "Super Soul Calibur Turbo" then a SCII. But that certainly doesn't mean it "sucks". It just means VF4 is still the king. Nothing wrong with second or third out of over 100 though.

I also agree with Hybrid. It's one thing to be able to beat the game's AI using the cheap same move over and over, and a completly other story to do that to a good human player... And if you do mean 2 human players, then whoever you're playing agaisnt really, really sucks.


Damn, I got to play a little today, and it hooked me... so I went to get it... but couldn't find it anywhere, sniff.


NBrid.net
Get out, and take your Sacagawea dollars with you! I'll give you 'til three. One!

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BoneStormer
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:17 am 
   Post subject: From IGN...
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Soul Calibur II (GCN, PS2, Xbox)
A long time in the making, Namco's first Soul Calibur hit the arcades in 1998 and then followed to release as a perfect port on Sega's Dreamcast console in 1999. The weapon-based fighter is widely regarded as one of the best 3D fighters of our time. As such, the sequel, Soul Calibur II, has been one of the most anticipated titles in recent years. Finally that fateful day has arrived; Soul Calibur II is available for GameCube, PlayStation 2, and Xbox.

Unlike the traditional multiplatform release, Soul Calibur II is not identical across all three platforms. There are exclusive gameplay and technical features that make them differ. Likewise, there are general details about each version that may interest the multiconsole owner, and thus better help in the renting or purchasing of the Namco fighter.
Features
Soul Calibur II offers up pretty much what you'd expect a fighter of its kind to offer. You have access to a multi-difficulty arcade mode, two-player verses, time battles, a survival mode, and others in addition to Weapons Master. This latter mode is one designed for the single-player experience, and it has you traveling all over a huge world map, facing off against opponents in a number of different circumstances and earning gold plus experience points as you progress. This deeper mode is available on all three consoles, and it offers up pretty much the same experience.

We say pretty much because there is the all-important factor of console-exclusive characters, which you probably know about by now. Nintendo GameCube features Link from Legend of Zelda, Sony PlayStation 2 features Namco's own Heihachi (from Tekken), and Microsoft Xbox is home to the famous Spawn, based on the comic. The point of Weapons Master is to earn money to buy new weapons, which aid you in your matches. Each character will eventually go on to buy 11 different weapons, which you won't find on the other consoles.

So, if they all have an exclusive character and weapons, you're probably wondering which character is best. Well, this is something of a debate, just like it is naming which regular Soul Calibur character is best; everyone has their own preference. Some will say Link's bombs are cheap, others will cry at the benefits of Spawn's hovering, and still others will croon wildly after seeing Heihachi's 10-hit combos. People will have their own preferences -- we cannot factually say one is better than the other.
Outside of this, Soul Calibur II features identical gameplay across all the platforms. You'll be seeing the same endings, unlocking the same characters and modes, and you'll have access to all the same moves. Only the exclusive characters mix things up a bit.

Winner: GameCube/PlayStation 2/Xbox (Tie)

Control
This is one of those sections of our Head-to-Heads that comes under scrutiny when it comes to the fighting genre. Many people cry about the importance of the D-pad, others say they are fine with using an analog stick, some proclaim PS2 as home to the ultimate fighting pad, and many damn the Xbox and, often, the GCN controllers for being inadequate for the genre. Trust us, we've heard it all, but we've also seen it all -- people kicking just as much tale with the GCN or Xbox controller, and even those that found dislike for the PS2 controller. The point is, this, too, is preferential. What it comes down to is, do they all have the same functionality, or are there any quirks?
You should be pleased to hear there aren't any weird controller layouts, and you can actually customize each pad as you please. You only need to make room for four major buttons: Block (G), Vertical Attack (B), Horizontal Attack (A), and Kick (K). The skill of using a gamepad for Soul Calibur II is how you combine the buttons: G+A for a grab, A+B+K for a soul charge, B+K for a special move, etc. You can accomplish all the moves on any of the controllers, be it GameCube, PlayStation 2, or Xbox.

Think about how you might accomplish these moves on each controller, and then consider what fits your preference best. It's really a tie here; you'll make the final decision.

Winner: GameCube/PlayStation 2/Xbox (Tie)
Sound
A fighter like Soul Calibur II places you and an opponent in a ring with some environmental effects. It's not exactly the most sound-intensive experience, but there is a good deal of music, fighter sound effects, and noises you hear coming from the environment. The three home consoles differ on these following fronts: quality and surround imaging.

First, let's discuss the quality of the sound. All of them have the quality of Dolby branding -- the GameCube has Pro Logic II, the PS2 has the same, and Xbox has in-game Dolby Digital. As you might guess, it's the latter that packs the most punch. Playing Soul Calibur II on the Xbox yields a much better balanced, clearer, and bassier signal. The lows really punch through and the highs are crystal clear. No doubt about it, it sounds great. Beneath the Xbox in sound quality is the PlayStation 2. It doesn't have as much bass, and seems to push more towards the mid-range. It still sounds wonderful, but it can't match wits with the Xbox signal. Lastly, there is GameCube. Although Namco took advantage of Dolby Pro Logic II, it apparently wasn't able to squeeze as wide a range of frequencies as it was on the others. Soul Calibur II on GameCube is much flatter and devoid of audio depth by comparison to the others. Sure, the signals are clear, but without the bass and better separated treble, it can't help but sound a bit deflated -- by comparison.
Then there is surround imaging. If you have the speaker setup to support it, you're probably not going to be blown away by any of the consoles performances in this area, but you can tell the difference between each version. Again, the Xbox has better separation -- both between frequencies and speakers. It's actually discrete, and Namco has successfully balanced environmental effects with music and sound effects. For example, on levels with water surrounding you, you'll actually hear it splashing around in the rear speakers. This is present on PS2 and GCN, but not nearly as clean. On Xbox, you'll also hear the occasional smack or clash of your weapons travel to the rear speakers as the camera spins.

The PlayStation 2 and GameCube, with their support for Dolby, sound great and come highly recommended, but if you want the absolute best sound, Xbox is going to deliver it to you for Soul Calibur II.

Winner: Xbox
Runner-up: PlayStation 2
Graphics
Being videogames, the visuals are always the high-point of our Head-to-Head comparisons for most. In the case of Soul Calibur II there are certainly differences, drawbacks, and advantages to discuss, but they are not as prominent as you may think. The fact is, each console version looks great and has a few pros and cons. There is a "best-looking" version, of course.

Without seeing Soul Calibur II in motion, you might very well easily mistake one version for the other. Here you can see the beautifully rendered Ivy model, and there really are no clear advantages on any of the consoles in this area. Can you really spot the differences? Unlikely, but they do exist.

The PlayStation 2, while Namco has taken advantage of it quite well, still features some flicker and aliasing -- it's not nearly as noticeable as other titles, however. In fact, Soul Calibur II is certainly one of the best-looking PS2 titles out there.

Nonetheless, in a scene like this, it's tough to tell without seeing it motion.

Looking at the above screenshot, you should probably find yourself stumped by their similarity again. Look closely at the grass and dirt textures, and you'll see some slightly different filtering, but what should stand out the most is the color saturation. PlayStation 2 is pretty standard looking, GameCube has a deeper green tone, and Xbox tends to wash out a little more. This is nit picking, though. Anyone has to be searching for these things to catch them (which you should really only leave to us).
By far, though, the biggest and most noticeable differences can be discerned more by examining the above scene. The carpet provides a good example of a complicated texture; you can see lighting differences, and you can see artifacting issues. The PlayStation 2 carpet, as you can see, is more pixilated and not as detailed up close. In motion, the textures dance around on the PS2 version which heightens the effect of the shimmering inherent to the hardware. As for GameCube, this particular texture doesn't budge and is perfectly filtered. It looks great. The catch is that as you push your field of vision towards the back of the scene, you can see the textures get a bit blurrier. On Xbox, this texture actually shifts slightly, but not nearly as much as the PS2 version. The strength on Xbox is its ability to display sharper textures in the background thanks to the larger amount of memory.

Then there is the framerate. Namco renders the action out at 60 frames per second on all three consoles, but unfortunately none of them are perfectly stable. The PlayStation 2 frequently slows down in the face of complicated particle effects and more detailed levels. GameCube and Xbox run very smoothly except for a hitch occasionally, but we noticed that the last boss, which throws off tons of effects, actually slows down the Xbox version. So, the GCN version seems to handle what's thrown at it a bit better.

All three versions run in widescreen, but only the GameCube and Xbox support progressive scan (480p). On top of this, the Xbox version supports the ultra high-end 720p (no 1080i) format. The latter looks very sharp, but only runs in 4:3 format -- a sad limitation, since most 4:3 DTVs don't support 720p and the HDTVs that do are widescreen format sets and thus display the game letterboxed in this mode.

In sum, the Xbox version takes the graphics award, but just barely. It and the GameCube version look spectacular, but the added texture detail on Xbox -- despite the slowdown with the last boss -- and 720p support pushes it over the edge. As for the PS2 version, if you're not bothered by framerate hitches occasionally, it's pretty solid, but it just doesn't have the same crisp look to it.

Winner: Xbox
Runner-up: GameCube
Presentation
A title like Soul Calibur II is all about presentation; a lot of it is about the style, in fact. With that said, there are a few elements that will decide the presentation portion of our Head-to-Head. They are as follows: the load time, the FMV, and the character presentation.

Load Point GameCube PlayStation 2 Xbox
Boot-up 17 sec. 24 sec. 12 sec.

Arena Load 1 6 sec. 8 sec. 5 sec.
Arena Load 2 5 sec. 7 sec. 5 sec.
Arena Load 3 5-6 sec. 8 sec. 5 sec.



First off, as you can see from the load times, they are all very, very similar. Other than the initial boot-up, it's almost ridiculous to say one version is worth owning over the other -- are three seconds really that important to you? Granted it's a technical merit, but it's nothing you should really be concerning yourself with. The PlayStation 2, although it is slowest, loads on the average of eight seconds. GameCube is close to 5 seconds, but it's not quite as fast as the Xbox (we're talking milliseconds; maybe a full second).

Moving on, full-motion video is scant in the Soul Calibur II experience. You get to see the beautiful introduction upon loading it up, but that's basically it. All three versions have really crisp, great FMV. Yes, there are slight differences be it saturation or edging, but it's pointless to try to compare them since the differences are so minor.

Lastly, we arrive at what is the most important point for presentation: how the exclusive characters were handled. All three characters are included in the opening FMV sequence, each of them have 11 weapons you can buy in Weapons Master, and they all have an incredible amount of cool moves. There is factual evidence that Namco paid more attention to the GameCube version in this regard, though. Not only are all the weapons included in SCII ripped straight out of Link's quests on past Nintendo consoles, and quite familiar to fans, but Namco has also remixed the Legend of Zelda theme song and included the famous you-just-got-treasure jingle: "Dun-DUN-DUNN-DAAAAH!"

Neither Heihachi or Spawn share these benefits. For this reason, GameCube has best presentation. And right behind it, Xbox if you're counting the seconds.

Winner: GameCube
Runner-up: Xbox
Final Verdict
For our final recommendation, we have to give you some important advice. Soul Calibur II, a fighter with exclusive, popular characters, is really not about technicalities in the end. If you want to know what version to buy or rent, the answer is simple: choose based on your favorite exclusive character and controller. Only if you have absolutely no interest in the exclusive character for each version should you base your decision on technical merits.

In opposition to our advice, though, our final verdict must come down to the technicalities. Because a game like this is so preferential, such a personal decision, we can only factually pick one winner: the Xbox SCII. It has the best visual advantages, punchier sound, and all the same gameplay content. After that, check out the GameCube version, which looks almost equally as solid. PlayStation 2 is also a fine version if you aren't worried about framerate problems.

Overall Winner: Xbox
Runner-up: GameCube
Whew!


NBrid.net
Get out, and take your Sacagawea dollars with you! I'll give you 'til three. One!

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BoneStormer
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:21 am 
   Post subject: Re: From IGN...
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Let's see, I'd like Link (Spawn 2nd) and the Dual-Shock (Xbox S second). So based off their recommendation, Xbox rates highest for my needs. Since thats out (I dont have one, yet), I'll get the PS2 version. That and I remembered I only have one GC controller (since my other one broke).


NBrid.net
Get out, and take your Sacagawea dollars with you! I'll give you 'til three. One!

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ConnDestn
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:13 am 
   Post subject: Re: From IGN...
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If link is first on your list and the dual shock is teh first controller then you got it perfect. Just buy the Gc version and spend $15 on a converter to use your dual shock on GC.

Seriously thats the easiest decision ive ever made for someone else.

Now your a bit superior to the ps2 version in graphics and hidden character and only a bit inferiror to the xbox graphics

Edited by: ConnDestn at: 8/30/03 11:14 pm
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BoneStormer
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 3:00 am 
   Post subject: Re: From IGN...
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Wow! Good idea... if I wasn't so damn cheap! Seriously. I would need to buy 2 adaptors and I'm not spending $30 for one game and the right to play as Link. Damn Namco. PS2 best controller, worst character. GC best character, worst controller. Xbox jack of all trades, master of none./


And anyone notice since SC2 was released all the SC2 commercials are about PS2 and their exclusive Heihachi? So after Namco catored to the GC crowd desparate for a fighter and got a good launch from them, they are looking towards the platform that will sell the game in the long run...


NBrid.net
Get out, and take your Sacagawea dollars with you! I'll give you 'til three. One!

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nbrid
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:46 pm 
   Post subject: Re: From IGN...
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Damn bone i really liked your system analogy, especially the jack of all trades part. I played the PS2 version at EB again and seeing it side by side with the gc version...it really doesnt seem as even as IGN says it to be. However, the gameplay is still there and I guess that is all that matters. It's really a shame though since the GC version is so crisp.

Oh, concerning the comment about how the backgrounds blurred in the distance on the GC version, I read that this was a graphical feature in the game, not a hitch. Oh well, no biggy. I think it's funny that I spent $77 on a stick for the GC version (all for myself) and bone wont get 2 ps2 controller adapters. One of my friends really could have used a ps2 controller, but then again, he also really could have used lizardman...

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ConnDestn
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:49 pm 
   Post subject: Re: From IGN...
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man just get 1 adapter for now and screw your friends, im sure u can muster another $15 in a week or so. Theres no point in not doing it cause it gives you the best of both. U spend more u get more. It will be alot better in the long run, instead of just being stuck with a $50 inferior version.

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klamkilla
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 1:35 am 
   Post subject: Re: From IGN...
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There's the whole thing about "Nintendo not designing a crap-ass controller for fighting, this aleviating my desire to cut them anytime the kidney buttons come into play" though. I really think its kind of silly to have to shell out thirty bucks just to get the most out of a game. Don't even get me started about how seventy-seven dollars is the amont you have to pay to get a quality arcade stick, either.

In conclusion, FAD Nintendo, FAD kidney buttons, and FAD obscenely priced prepherils.

Oh, and every SC2 commercial I've seen has been shilling the crap out of Link. Maybe they play different versions in different markets or something.

Edited by: klamkilla  at: 8/31/03 11:36 pm
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nbrid
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 2:38 am 
   Post subject: Re: From IGN...
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$77 well spent my friend.

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