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Written by: Hybrid

Welcome to the first edition of NB Crossfire. This first took place in
#nbrid on our new server. Basically NB Crossfire is a weekly argument
by Hybrid and klamkilla over a topic that actually means something. ConnDestn
and DarkWadeX happened to be in the room at the time and made it even
more interesting so we decided to include them in this annual event. If
one of them cannot make it, we may find a substitute for that night. Of
course, if klam or hy have plans that Saturday night, the match will be
postponed to either a different time of the week or the topic will be
pushed to next week's Crossfire. Members of NBrid can submit ideas for
each week's argument in the boards or via email. (send all ideas to hybrid@nbrid.net)



This week's topic was based on Retro Studios dropping the Raven Blade
RPG for Nintendo's GameCube. Although Nintendo made this decision, it
was based on Retro's performance themselves. Hybrid and klamkilla each
seemed to take different stands in the beginning but in the end, they
pretty much agreed that Retro is currently sucking and needs to get their
act together. The following are highlights of that conversation. You can
also decide to read the entire unedited log of that night down below.
Remember, the next Crossfire is this Saturday the 28th around midnight,
central time. Anyone is welcome, just don't plan on talking in the main
chat window at all :). PM's still work...If you do not know the location
of the new home of NBrid's chat room, check out the Chat gateway.

Entire Crossfire Log (Warning:
Explicit Content)

<Hybrid> im not saying the games were good, the car one looked good
and was almost done, the rpg sucked because it wasnt even a real game!
just fmv, the football one was barely worked on and canned for more work
on metroid, metroid is just running through corridors shooting objects
and needs work, its all early production so im not saying anything about
it

<klamkilla> you see retro lacks focus and they have incredibly
low morale, and you said it your self graphics dont mean squat. the RPG
had a shitty engine obviously their football game wasnt up to par with
anything anyone else will be releasing and metriod is turning into a lame
FPS

<Hybrid> u see klam, i agree, retro has blown monkey balls from
the start..but u cant write them off, its still early in their life, so
they will obviously figure out what metroid should be like and with Nintendo
behind them, it wont suck in the end

<klamkilla> this all went bad when metriod became a FPA and nintendo
should just strip retro of the project and give it to a reliable developer
like rare who has proven their worth in game design

<klamkilla> as of this point in time shiggy has been dissapointed
with all of retros progress on metroid yet they still work on it accomplishing
nothing.... i mean how many chances should they get? 7? i think its enough
i mean i want a GREAT follow up to super metroid not some contrived FPA

<Hybrid> retro just needs better level design and interaction,
that can easily be fixed and it doesnt even take skilled programmers to
fix that one

<Hybrid> and how do you know how good retro is? they are still
new for god's sake. they only follow orders. they have no mind, all is
to serve the master and allmighty shiggs. He commands, they try to interpret
his bad engrish. So what do you have? the programmers arent INTO the game
because its not "theirs" in a sense. If you just realize that
retro is still new, as well as the game, hell mario took like 5 years
to make and EAD made that one!

<Hybrid> We didnt know if mario 64 had tons of problems in work,
because ppl just didnt want to discourage ppl or release their secret.
REtro isnt as big a commodity and they dont care if ppl know how bad retro
is sucking. you just cant write off a whole company by Nintendo's great
expectations and the fact that they are only a year into the project!

<klamkilla> no hy i have been saying that as of right now metroid
is a sub par product and i will continue to believe that untill thye show
us something promising... nto just samos running down a hallway....

<klamkilla> so we agree that the commercialization of christmas
is a mixed blessing at best

Check back next week for the 2nd edition of NB Crossfire!

 (Saturday, July 21, 2001)

<klamkilla> wow hy you defend anything with the nintendo log on
it

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Motsy has indeed been compromised

<Hybrid> wow you stereotype me like a bitch

<ConnDestn> lol

<klamkilla> well ya do.. i mean retro come on!!!

<Hybrid> just because i have more information than you, u assume
i have to agree with u

<klamkilla> why cant you admit their games have been bad?

<Hybrid> hmm i never said retro was great

<ConnDestn> Now now ladies

<Hybrid> i read everything there is to know about retro

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Cat Fight!!

<ConnDestn> lol

<klamkilla> as do i i check IGN once a day so i kinda keep up on
whats going on

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Jerry! jerry!

<Hybrid> they dont work well together and their games arent great,
but that car combat one had nothing wrong with it..thats why it wasnt
officially canned

<ConnDestn> Steve! Steve!

<klamkilla> they just laid off like 36 guys right?

<klamkilla> 26*

<ConnDestn> low blow!!

<Hybrid> NIntendo laid them off because the rpg had no fighting
engine

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Conn who do you think will win this showdown,
Hy or Klam?

<ConnDestn> Ladies and Gentleman. This is how lost souls are made.
LOL

<klamkilla> im sorry but none of their games have even begun to
impress me.. especially a generic car combat game when we have great ones
liek TM3 black and V8

<ConnDestn> that Tm3 commecial is scary

<Hybrid> dude im not saying the games were good, the car one looked
good and was almost done, the rpg sucked because it wasnt even a real
game! just fmv, the football one was barely worked on and canned for more
work on metroid, metroid is just running through corridors shooting objects
and needs work, its all early production so im not saying anything about
it

<klamkilla> it was a BIG mistake on nintendos part to pick up retro
as a second party

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Hy makes on hlluva comeback!

<MajinWade_is_Dead> helluva*

<ConnDestn> raven blade was just fmv

<ConnDestn> Sons of .......

<klamkilla> yay

<klamkilla> we are talking about games again!!!

<Hybrid> nintendo did pick them up, they made them..but i guess
not all american developers can make a quality japanese game

<Hybrid> *didnt

<ConnDestn> so there

<klamkilla> and thats their problem

<MajinWade_is_Dead> can Klam return?

<ConnDestn> heh

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Yes He can!

*** ULTIMA-W has joined #nbrid

<ConnDestn> Hiyoooooooo

<ConnDestn> suprise guest

<Hybrid> eeeeeeeeeto

<ConnDestn> joins the battle

<MajinWade_is_Dead> 3 way Dance of DEATH!!!!!!!

<ConnDestn> lol

<Hybrid> u wanna fight? thems fightin words!

<MajinWade_is_Dead> BBT vs. Klam vs. Hy

<Hybrid> lol

<ConnDestn> I know how to get them started

<ULTIMA-W> lol

<Hybrid> BBT: dude xbox sucks

<ConnDestn> Ps2 Vs GC

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Klam seems to be gone

<Hybrid> i think hes typin up a storm

<MajinWade_is_Dead> this is now one on one

<Hybrid> typos aplenty!

*** ULTIMA-W is now known as ULTI-AFK

<ConnDestn> lol

<MajinWade_is_Dead> BBT runs away

<klamkilla> you see retro lacks focus and they have incredibly low
morale, and you said it your self graphics dont mean squat. the RPG had
a shitty engine obviously their football game wasnt up to par with anything
anyone else will be releasing and metriod is turning into a lame FPS

<ConnDestn> ooooooh

<MajinWade_is_Dead> An unexpected avalanche by Klam

<ConnDestn> and there werent any typos

<ConnDestn> good shot klam

<ConnDestn> no wait

<ConnDestn> 1

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Klam used some big words, how will Hy counter?

<ConnDestn> still good shot

<ConnDestn> lol

<MajinWade_is_Dead> your thoughts Conn?

<klamkilla> the crowd taunts klamkilla the underdog

<ConnDestn> dont get me in this

<Hybrid> hmm thats pretty much exact klam, i didnt say otherwise
at all. i guess you misread my defending the car combat game and "having
hope" for retro as saying "gee guys these ppl are swell".
No the Metroid game obviously needs work and retro isnt used to so much
pressure..plus they have no experience working together besides this project..its
their only game now, and with miyamoto checkin in, this game wont be out
for at least a year

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Conn doesnt want in but Klam seems to be humpin
an Xbox

<ConnDestn> Ill say something retarded like nintendo should have
gave metroid to sony and let them bring it out on theier system

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Hy attacks like a oman with 10 VD's

<MajinWade_is_Dead> woman*

<ConnDestn> heh

<Hybrid> hey this would make a nice log

<ConnDestn> Nothing like watching u too argue, and a repeat of ER
at the same time

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Klam seems to be ready to unleash something
big

* ConnDestn wants in

* ConnDestn changes his mind

<Hybrid> u see klam, i agree, retro has blown monkey balls from
the start..but u cant write them off, its still early in their life, so
they will obviously figure out what metroid should be like and with Nintendo
behind them, it wont suck in the end

<ConnDestn> monkey balls isnt comming out either

<ConnDestn> awwwe man

<Hybrid> yes it is

<Hybrid> thats sega

<ConnDestn> oh

<ConnDestn> phew

<Hybrid> its monkey BALL too

<MajinWade_is_Dead> more amazing insight from Conn "I make
love to pokemunkis" Destn

<Hybrid> heh

<ConnDestn> lol@majin

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Hy kicks some more ass

<ConnDestn> whats your thoughts Wade?

<ConnDestn> We want to know what u think of retro

<Hybrid> this really isnt much of a fight..we're actualy arguing
over whether retro sucks or if they REALLY suck

<ConnDestn> Majin "pee on my leg and tell me its raining"
Wade

<MajinWade_is_Dead> I liked the 70's but it wasnt my style

<ConnDestn> lol

<ConnDestn> want even in your time period

<klamkilla> no hybrid, i dont even remember how this started but
whenever i would bad mouth retro you would be like "hey come on now
they are trying their best and thats all we can ask" i mean i really
do want metroid t odo very well but the fact is is that retro is untalented
and artists dont mean a damn thing. if they couldnt come up with a simple
RPG battle engine how are they going to be able to live up to the high
standards that t

<MajinWade_is_Dead> maybe that is why it isnt my style

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Whoa Nelly!

<ConnDestn> lol

<ConnDestn> Mama Ei Ei

<ConnDestn> uh oh

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Klam is kickin names and takin ass now!

<ConnDestn> he said untalented

<klamkilla> this all went bad when metriod became a FPA and nintendo
should just strip retro of the project and give it to a reliable developer
like rare who has proven their worth in game design

<ConnDestn> hes hitting them hard

<ConnDestn> that was justmean klam

<ConnDestn> u made me want to cry

<MajinWade_is_Dead> He is hitin them harder that Tommy hit Pam

<ConnDestn> lol

<Hybrid> umm, i never said crap like "they are trying"
thats pussy talk. Maybe you misunderstood like usual. Im just saying that
Metroid wont suck when it comes out. Whoever said artists mean everything?
i just said they were laid off

<klamkilla> lmao

<Hybrid> i dont think rare should do metroid, give it to EAD for
gods sake

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Hy is using the word Pussy he is one mad injun
now

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Klam is going to no doubt lag my sorry ass even
more

<Hybrid> side note: its my personal belief that mario sunshine is
the next mario game, it has a release date of 2001, and its the last of
the 7 games nintendo promises for GC this year..what the fuck else would
it be?

<ConnDestn> Lets take a moment to remember Gumpei Yokoi in all this
confusion....

<klamkilla> as of this point in time shiggy has been dissapointed
with all of retros progress on metroid yet they still work on it accomplishing
nothing.... i mean how many chances should they get? 7? i think its enough
i mean i want a GREAT follow up to super metroid not some contrived FPA

<ConnDestn> Blast it show Some REsPECT!!

<klamkilla> oohh new mario game

<ConnDestn> mario sunshine?

<klamkilla> intriguing

<ConnDestn> uhm

<MajinWade_is_Dead> this is a war like Vietnam with a purpose

<klamkilla> too bad it has a gay name....

<ConnDestn> im not even gonna get started on taht name

<Hybrid> retro just needs better level design and interaction, that
can easily be fixed and it doesnt even take skilled programmers to fix
that one

<Hybrid> lol@vietnam with a purpose

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Hy is takin it to Klam like Dolemite takin it
to a foxy ladie

<Hybrid> PIMP CANE

<klamkilla> uhm, when it comes to a highly vaunted project like
the next metroid... a game which hasnt been re done in over 6 years the
developers had better have talent

<ConnDestn> Klam just pulled a Pootie Tang!!

<ConnDestn> Whooopa

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Damn right Conn!

<ConnDestn> lol

<Hybrid> well here's retro's problem: simple running around and
shooting, not metroid style. they need to bone up and BONE GOOD. All they
need is to really think about level design and find a better way to control
samus

<MajinWade_is_Dead> He kickin him in the wootilootie

<klamkilla> who actually saw that movie?

<ConnDestn> silence echoes about

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Poor Pootie..........

<ConnDestn> sadate

<klamkilla> crickets are heard chirping

<ConnDestn> oh my

<ConnDestn> Hy brought Bone into this

<klamkilla> and thats my point METRIOD WONT WORK AS A FPA AND RETRO
FUCKED IT UP BIG TIME

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Klam is talkin bout Pootie while Hy is on the
offensive

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Klam took it to Hy like the Man took it to Rodney
King

<Hybrid> at first, the game's camera was fucked, and the game just
wasnt right, now they seemed to have solved having her in the 3d realm
with different views..but i assume the switcing from first to 3rd view
will be difficult, but all that can be fixed

*** ULTI-AFK has quit IRC (Quit: ULTI-AFK)

<Hybrid> hmm really? now wait..i kind of remember Nintendo making
the decision to

give retro the rights to metroid on a game that was fomeraly a fps..yeah
i remember shiggy told that time himself!

<klamkilla> by TAL:ENTED developers... every platformer and FPS
has had camera problems... using both formats just amplifies the dillema

<MajinWade_is_Dead> This has been the most exciting fight since
Gary fought 20 rounds with his own shadow

<ConnDestn> BoomShakalaka

<Hybrid> lol

<ConnDestn> toobad gary lost taht one

<MajinWade_is_Dead> sadly he lost

<Hybrid> amplifies the dilema?

<ConnDestn> lol

<Hybrid> u mean, make bad?

<klamkilla> ok in laymans terms....

* ConnDestn gets the dictionary

<MajinWade_is_Dead> and Hy is know rambling

<klamkilla> makes the game more bad

<Hybrid> so i guess you are saying that first person view is a dilema
and with another view, it makes it amplified?

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Could thi be a sign that he is screwed worse
that a blonde woman in Cali?

<ConnDestn> more bad isnt correct english

<Hybrid> it sure amn't

<MajinWade_is_Dead> makes the game worse, is correct grammar

<ConnDestn> Thanks u for that Wade

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Klam is startin to fold

<Hybrid> metroid happens to be a difficult game to bring to 3d,
NINTENDO made the decision for it to be 1st person. I read an interview
that a lot of the game will also be in 3rd person view...not just a few
choice points.

<MajinWade_is_Dead> N/p

<ConnDestn> heh

<klamkilla> no with the obvious untalented retro studios team doing
things like perfecting camera angles in 1st and 3rd person modes is going
t otake a loooong time and they will prolly fuck up at least 9 times before
they get it to the deplorable stage

<MajinWade_is_Dead> twin blows

<ConnDestn> heh

<MajinWade_is_Dead> This is a Slobberknocker!

<ConnDestn> Its like Frog looked at Crono and the performed a X-strike

<Hybrid> what game have you seen that made a perfect transition
between 1st and 3rd view? MGS? not many

<klamkilla> heh i love arguing with you hybrid

<Hybrid> :)

<ConnDestn> Uhmmmmm

<MajinWade_is_Dead> that just killed the tension

<ConnDestn> lol

<ConnDestn> sure did

<Hybrid> nice going

<MajinWade_is_Dead> You sorry bastard

<ConnDestn> lol

<Hybrid> should i just type up something really long to make a long
pause?

* MajinWade_is_Dead thros down the mic

<klamkilla> EXACTLY there have been many games that have tried and
ultimately failed but the developers were probbably a lot more talented
than those from retro

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Go for it Hy

<ConnDestn> come back wade

<klamkilla> look at zelda it incorporates 1st and 3rd person flawlessly

<ConnDestn> true

<klamkilla> hell gologo 13 did it better than metroid is doing it

<MajinWade_is_Dead> I am back even though Klam killed it worse OJ
killed those people

<MajinWade_is_Dead> than*

<ConnDestn> heh

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Klam went for a Gologo 13 ref. that is a killer
move

<klamkilla> u like that wade?

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Hy is plannin something big......

<klamkilla> time for a low blow.....

<Hybrid> and how do you know how good retro is? they are still new
for god's sake. they only follow orders. they have no mind, all is to
serve the master and allmighty shiggs. He commands, they try to interpret
his bad engrish. So what do you have? the programmers arent INTO the game
because its not "theirs" in a sense. If you just realize that
retro is still new, as well as the game, hell mario took like 5 years
to make and EAD made that one!

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Indeed I do, almost makes me forget that wussy
shit

<klamkilla> oh im sorry i dont even think hy played games back in
the gologo 13 days

<MajinWade_is_Dead> ALMOST

<Hybrid> gologo?

<klamkilla> see

<MajinWade_is_Dead> hy let out a killablow

<Hybrid> what does this have to do with retro?

<ConnDestn> oooo

<ConnDestn> that was too low

<ConnDestn> killa took it to the limit

<MajinWade_is_Dead> that was lower than the San Andreas Fault

<klamkilla> hmm its not too hard to interpret broken english pal
i do it every goddamn day at work with my boss who is greek and can barely
speak english out side of chice swears... that was a laaaaaame argument
hybrid

<ConnDestn> on a brither note im looking at the nes gologo13 cartridge
as we speak

<Hybrid> i didnt finish anyway

<Hybrid> where was i?

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Killa comes in with the lowest blow sinmce Pam
and Tommy's honeymoon

<ConnDestn> My man stan with a gun in his hand staking my house
out in a tan tintend sedan, blow your mouth out till u cant finish your
last ham sandwich or u cant spit out your spam.

<klamkilla> and if the programmers arent into the game why are they
doing it? to intentionally put out a sub par product?

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Hy is even more lost than I was halfway into
Eyes Wide Shut

<ConnDestn> heh

<Hybrid> it took forever to make mario 64, why? because it was a
new environment and new game concept (3d). Now REtro has the task of making
a game that works fluidly between 1st and 3rd view. They havent accomplished
that yet. Right now they have the running down pat, good for them. It
takes a long time to develop a new format. Nintendo has done it, and if
we didnt know about all this retro crap, we wouldnt think of them like
this. cont...

<MajinWade_is_Dead> And the world wonders how many of the anecdotes
do I have left?

<klamkilla> yeah there was an orgy then he was in a suit shop wit
hthat girl and the dad started yelling.....

<ConnDestn> The crowd waits

<Hybrid> We didnt know if mario 64 had tons of problems in work,
because ppl just didnt want to discourage ppl or release their secret.
REtro isnt as big a commodity and they dont care if ppl know how bad retro
is sucking. you just cant write off a whole company by Nintendo's great
expectations and the fact that they are only a year into the project!

<MajinWade_is_Dead> and Klam is trying to save Kubrick but this
could hurt him

<klamkilla> ummm i remember early shots and demos of mario 64 to
be extremely promising and not crap tastic like metriod is

<ConnDestn> More than the last 30 minutes of AI did

<Hybrid> so the screens of metroid reveal how bad it is?

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Good one Conn

<klamkilla> i dont care why the game is bad right now hybrid the
fact of the matter is that it is so just deal wit hit

<ConnDestn> I try

<ConnDestn> :)

<klamkilla> -no shiggy SAID how bad it is

<ConnDestn> The ole deal with it line

<ConnDestn> still works like a charm

<Hybrid> wait..you're telling me to deal with it? thats what im
saying! you think it will suck because it sucks now. Im saying just because
it sucks now doesnt mean it will suck later...

<ConnDestn> eeeeeeeto

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Hy and Klam have been going at it longer than
a 90 year old man that just took 60 Viagras

<ConnDestn> u lost me at the first suck

<Hybrid> not bad wade

<Hybrid> i dont care how much metroid sucks now..what do i have
to deal with?

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Hy is doing more suckin than Tomb Raider

<ConnDestn> The age old question

<ConnDestn> lol

<klamkilla> no hy i have been saying that as of right now metroid
is a sub par product and i will continue to believe that untill thye show
us something promising... nto just samos running down a hallway....

<Hybrid> thats what im saying!

<Hybrid> arrrrghghhghg

<Hybrid> this arguement blows

<MajinWade_is_Dead> Klam has more comebacks than Cher on ritalin

<klamkilla> it killed almost an hour

<Hybrid> heh

<Hybrid> well i think we agree sorta..

<Hybrid> i think we disagree in that i have a tiny bit more faith
than u

<ConnDestn> u agree to dissagree

<klamkilla> so we agree that the commercialization of christmas
is a mixed blessing at best

<Hybrid> at best

<ConnDestn> ineed

<Hybrid> and that love was sold to halmark and disney in the late
80's then sold off piece by piece